Q&A with Jon Heder
I interviewed the star of the legendary indie comedy "Napoleon Dynamite" about his career, his faith, and the project he's most proud of (which I guarantee you haven't heard of).
My favorite line from the 2004 film Napoleon Dynamite is “Do the chickens have large talons?” Growing up, it was something that my friends and I would quote to each other endlessly. You probably have a different favorite quote, and that’s the magic of Napoleon – a movie so effortlessly bizarre that it captured the hearts of countless Americans, was acquired by Fox Searchlight after premiering at the Sundance Film Festival, grossed $44 million off of a $400,000 budget, and was awarded “Best Movie” at the 2005 MTV Movie Awards. The film’s lead actor, Jon Heder, also won for “Breakthrough Male Performance,” and 20 years later, it’s clear that the film is carried by the nerdy charisma of its star. Heder went on to have a successful career in Hollywood, starring in movies like Benchwarmers, Blades of Glory, and Surf’s Up. Though less in the limelight today, Heder continues to act in movies, most recently reuniting with Napoleon director Jared Hess for the Netflix animated film Thelma the Unicorn.
You rocketed to viral fame in a pre-social media world with your role in Napoleon Dynamite. I have to ask: which line do you get shouted at you the most?
“Tina, you fat lard.” That's the number one line.
On the streets, when people see you, do they recognize you as Napoleon?
Yeah, yeah. But you know, it's easier nowadays. Like if you know you know. I can walk by lots of people and they won't recognize that they're if they're not paying attention or looking. And then there's times where it's like I'm in a certain place and everybody starts recognizing me. I'll go to a grocery store, and then every employee in the grocery store is starting to come up. And on the other hand I just did a flight to Palm Springs and came back and I don't think I was recognized once on the flight. So it's just kind of weird. Just depends on where I'm at.
I'm curious what influenced your decision to be an actor in the first place? Were there influences or inspirations that you had growing up?
Well, even before I was in high school I was making movies. I have a twin brother, and he and I were always in the arts. We were always involved in creative stuff. We went on adventures. We did lots of drawing. We made books. And then when we got to high school, that's where all that creative energy turned itself more into making videos. And we were still involved in art and we loved that. But we were like, oh my gosh, we love making videos. I want to make movies. This is what I want to do. I want to go to film school.
And I wanted to go to BYU. I got into the film program, and then, like a lot of film students, I decided I was going to study everything. I didn’t know exactly what I was going to do. So yeah, I took acting classes, but I had done very little acting. In my own videos in high school, I started to get a certain flair for goofing off in front of the camera, having fun, letting go of myself. It was in college that I took this acting class and really liked it, and it just spoke to me and I was like, oh my gosh, I get this. At the same time, though, I was continuing to take film classes, and I took animation classes too.
And then, it was while I was at BYU that I met up with Jared Hess. He was a fellow student. I won’t repeat the whole backstory. But the fact is that Napoleon Dynamite happened while I was still in school. And so really suddenly I'm finishing up my last semester at school with a film under my belt that's just about to hit theaters, and everybody's like, oh my gosh. After it got into Sundance and got sold by Searchlight, everybody's just like, “Dude, your life's going to change.” I was like, okay. And then I realized, obviously, the biggest door in the world was ready to just swing wide open.
So the door swung wide open, and you went through it. You were in Blades of Glory with Will Ferrell. You were the voice of Chicken Joe in Surf’s Up. What was that process like for you as you were choosing those roles? Were there roles you were turning down? What were you thinking about the direction of your career?
It was an exciting time because it's kind of like, “Now what?” I wanted to continue acting, but even then, I didn't grow up always thinking I was going to be an actor. And even then it was like, “Do I want to do serious acting?” But at the same time, a lot of these comedy opportunities opened up, so I could be doing fun stuff.
But I got all these offers for lots of projects that were, to me, inappropriate. They were uncomfortable. They had content that made me just say, “Whoa, I want to be this good LDS boy… it’s who I am, and it just wouldn’t make sense to do this project.” I knew that it was a couple different things coming in at once, a couple different perspectives.
One perspective was just the objective perspective. Being raised the way I was, growing up in the Church, and feeling strong about my testimony and thinking, “Of course, I’ve got to be an example.” I didn't feel like I had to be. But I'm like, “Well, a lot of eyes are on me now.”
And [Napoleon] was, you know, a little bit of my background. It was the biggest topic when I went and met with everybody down in Hollywood. I met with agents, producers, writers, managers. And one of their first questions, every time, was “Wow, what’s your story? You went to BYU, you're Mormon. You went on a mission. What's that all about?” All people knew about us were the sound bites. Nobody knew anything about me.
So I knew that there was going to be an element of decision. I have a lot of favorite actors who do projects that I probably would never do. But I thought to myself, “I’ve got to uphold a certain image.” Not out of guilt, but out of, like, a very personal perspective. I wouldn't feel right doing this kind of movie. I knew I’d feel uncomfortable watching myself in some of these things. You know, I grew up a pretty liberal film viewer—I would watch anything and everything. And I could put on those film student goggles and say to myself, I can watch anything because I know exactly how to dissect it without letting myself become involved or too affected by the content… I could look through all the naughty bits and say “there's a good message here”, or “there's a terrible message here, this is garbage!” But suddenly, I was looking at all these projects and each one was different.
I saw things that were really cool, but I just didn’t like the content, or I’d get offered something terrible, but the content is okay. Like morally and by my own standards, I would feel okay doing it, except that it was poorly written and not good. Each project was different, but you know, all the movies that you just listed off felt like, “Oh yeah, this is fun. I'm okay doing this kind of a film.” I liked pushing the envelope just a little bit for me. For a lot of Hollywood, maybe it was nothing. But for me, I knew I wanted to be putting out a certain image. I didn't know what my career was going to look like. I wondered if it was possible to have a career doing all these big movies, but all within my comfort zone. And looking back, I'm not saying it's not possible, but obviously I didn't go on to just do tons and tons and tons of movies. I've done some big movies. But obviously things slowed down. I didn't have it in my blood to go on to continue to be a big movie star. I just take it as it comes, continue to try to do projects that I like. It feels a little bit like riding the wave.
I feel like that was a very honest response. For better or worse, you are probably the highest profile Mormon in Hollywood. And I think being an actor, more so than some other profession like grip or gaffer or cameraman, that identity is really front and center. Are there regrets or reflections you have about a role that you took or didn't take?
Not really. I don't like to really think so much of regrets. But boy, I wish I knew then what I knew now, or at least to a certain degree. Like if I could go back I’d be more proactive about other things. I shot down a lot of stuff that my agents sent to me. I was repped by CAA, a big agency, and I got a feeling that they’re probably used to getting new clients and pitching them everything, and those clients being like, “Yes, let's do it. Yes, yes, yes!” And my problem was that I wasn’t good at acting in the boardroom when I was getting pitched something I just didn’t want to do. I was very picky. It's not that I felt bad about saying no to projects. If I could do it again, I’d want to hit the ground running and really chase the projects that were most interesting to me. There was also so much I just didn't know, but I don't regret it. Because if I had gone in there with a stronger desire to be this successful movie star and less anchored in what it takes to try to live the standards of my belief and my faith, then maybe one side would have won out over the other. For me, it was my standards, that was always going to be first. That was my drive, in wanting to show the world that image.
It's a hard balance to walk, and it's a huge spotlight. Is there a role that you're particularly proud of? Or a movie or a show that you wish had a larger audience than it did?
Yep. Pickle and Peanut was this Disney cartoon that ran for two very long seasons. That was one of my favorite projects to do after Napoleon. Of course Napoleon is the one I’m most proud of—it was so personal to me. It started everything– and look at what it’s become, how can I not be proud of that? But, a lot of people know that movie, but not a lot of people know this cartoon I worked on. I just love it to death. It was so funny. It was so fun to make. We’re going on five years since it stopped running, but I’ll still tell anyone who asks to just go watch Pickle and Peanut. I think there’s a life for it; it can still exist!
I've done some stinkers and I’ve done some good ones. But “Pickle and Peanut” is the best of them all.
I was not expecting that answer, but I am delighted by it. Last year was the 20th anniversary of Napoleon Dynamite’s premiere at Sundance Film Festival. Tell me a little bit about that experience—what was it like to be back?
I mean, it was a different experience, but it was just cool to be back there. I wish they could have showed our movie in the same theater—that would have been really cool. We had a good handful of some of the cast. But the magic of the first time we were there, we had the whole main cast with us. It was so exciting, but you can’t really replicate that ever again. Back in 2004 we were just this little movie that nobody knew, but the buzz was building and building. And then people see it for the first time, it’s blowing up and they’re loving it. And it was just like this whirlwind of a week.
Of course last year, we were only there for like two days. We had a great audience, but it just wasn't the same. But I'm not complaining. It was very cool to see how Sundance was celebrating because they had like sweatshirts and swag, they had a tot truck, they were giving out “Vote for Pedro” flyers. They had flash mob dancers dressed as Napoleon. They all had wigs on, and they were walking down the main street of Park City. They had the music booming, and they'd all be doing the dance like they had practiced it. It was weird and crazy. So it was really cool to see that.
Is there any advice you'd give to an aspiring LDS filmmaker?
I feel like it's different to give advice to filmmakers versus what I would say to actors. I don’t want to separate them, because actors can be filmmakers sometimes, but it's the difference of being in the spotlight and having the success of now being an image, a face. When you think about [members of the Church] in Hollywood, well, there's not a lot of names, and the only names I know are the ones who are famously inactive, you know. “I heard so and so was raised Mormon, but not anymore.”
And so it just always seemed as a kid and in college, you hear those things, and you’d think, “Geez, that seems to be the way these people go to Hollywood; they get a little success, then they leave the church.” And of course, there's success in different forms. But I feel like in the limelight as an actor, it can go to your head and that maybe gets to a point where you're like, “I want to do these projects, I want to do this and this.”
There’s probably lots of stories of other members who go down to LA to be directors or writers or producers who do the same thing. They leave the church, they become inactive. But you don't hear those stories as often because you know, they're not in the limelight.
If I had any advice, I'd say, just figure out what's important to you and stick to that. Like, you know what you're going to do, what's most important to you. And if you're a faithful member of the Church and you want to go into Hollywood, I mean, it's just like anything else. It's a job. Hopefully you get work. Hopefully it becomes a career. But if you're faithful to it, and you trust in your testimony, then you stay strong and never forget that. Just never forget that. Go to church, read your scriptures, just like you learn in seminary.
Even in the past couple of years, I've learned so much about the importance of [scripture study].
Like anything, it’s a muscle, and it's an exercise. You have to work at it. You can take so much for granted when it comes to your testimony. And if you don't nurture it, especially if you're going into Hollywood, it is easy to be consumed.
I feel like I’ve never wavered, though I've had hard times. That sounds like a brag. I'm not trying to brag, but I absolutely can feel empathy and understand why certain people do leave. Fame can get to you, absolutely. If I was more talented, it’d probably be even harder. But luckily, I’m not as talented as I think I am. [laughs] So if you gave me more opportunities for Satan to tempt me with his delicious offers, I don't know…
And yet at the same time, I have some great friends who are still active members who are acting.So it absolutely exists. And it is doable. It's the conscious kind of choice you make, right? A testimony isn’t location based. If the only thing that's keeping you in the church is Provo, Utah, then don’t leave, I guess.
Anything else you’d like to add before we wrap things up?
It's always enjoyable for me to do these kinds of interviews because when I first started in the business, one thing I thought about a lot was that I was unofficially a bit of a spokesperson for the entire Church. Maybe not a spokesperson, but a representative. Instagram and social media didn’t exist when I first started acting. But I was always wondering, should I just throw up a banner– “I’m a Mormon!”– or do I shy away from it? How much do I put it out there? And so I shared my testimony in the best way that I knew that I felt comfortable with. I never shied away from talking about my faith if people asked me, and I would get asked a lot.
But, for years, for so much of my career, I’ve always had this certain element of wanting to show that I can do this without having some big outpouring in every interview I do. I didn’t want to be “Hey, I’m LDS, I do this, I don’t do that.” And sometimes I wonder, are people in the Church even aware that I’m a member or that I’m active. And I want them to know that. I’m absolutely a member and I love the Church. I love the gospel. I have a firm testimony. I go to church! [laughs] That’s what’s most important to me.
Dang I am totally watching Pickle and Peanut now!!
Awesome interview!
So like, you’re doing something wright when an interview is so natural and so very honest as this.
What a chill, confident and very good example Jon is.
Very cool.